Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

[AMPS] Parasitic suppressors/another question,

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] Parasitic suppressors/another question,
From: measures@vc.net (Rich Measures)
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 00:42:31 -0700


>
>>>Agreed. Still you can design an HF amp to be unconditionally stable and 
>>>test for that condition as well.
>>
>>?  Tuning the HF tank circuit and disconnecting the hf load have 
>>virtually nothing to do with what is happening in the anode-resonant 
>>circuit where the parasitic oscillations take place. 
>
>Ah contrair!  You yourself have said that the anode-resonant circuit is 
>composed of Ctune.  Is not Ctune in the tank circuit???  
>Sooooooo.......tuning the tank circuit DOES make a difference.  
>
?  Adjusting C-tune makes little difference in the anode resonance since 
C-tune is effectively in series with C-anode, which is much smaller.   

>Also, it DOES give one a measure of stability measurements.  In my amp 
>(and in others) the amps were made to oscillate by doing this test.  
>After proper suppressor design was intoduced (especially Rich's 
>recommendations to add a 10 Ohm resistor in series with a 22 pF cap to 
>each cathode lead), the oscillation went away and the amp was completely 
>stable.  

?  'Tis hardly a good idea to tempt fate this close to the ides of April, 
Jon.  

>I recommended this to another 4-1000A user and it got rid of his 
>zero signal grid current as well!
>
>The test DOES work Rich.  Been there.  Done that.
> 
>>>> .  
>>>>>And if it is with no drive applied and the neon glows
>>>>>orange it means it is oscillating on or near the band selected - not so?
>>>>>
>>>>?  In my experiences, g-g triodes can occasionally oscillate in steady 
>>>>state without drive above the grid self-resonance.  In a 3-500Z, this is 
>>>>approx. 80MHz. 
>>>
>>>Well, then those amps have design problems.  Did those oscillations that 
>>>you mention from your experience occur with our without your nichrome 
>>>suppressors?  
>>
>>?  Both.  Resistance-wire suppressors lower VHF gain compared to 
>>copper-wire suppressors. 
>
>Well Rich, if an amp with your suppressors in it randomly oscillates at 
>80 MHz, then your suppressors aren't doing their job are they?  Aren't 
>they supposed to suppress VHF oscillations?  

?  I do not build the suppressors.  If L-supp is less than optimal, the 
suppression will be as well.  

>Last I looked 80 MHz was at VHF.  

?  zzzzz

>If they are lossy on 10M (which you say is true), then they should 
>be much lossier at 80 MHz.  So how can you say they are working?  Perhaps 
>a good anode suppressor design is not the only thing needed in developing 
>a stable amplifier.  Perhaps you need other circuit improvements as well.
>
?  VHF damping the input side of the feedback C and reducing the vhf Q of 
the wiring between the anode and C-tune are two of my favourites. 

>Also, what does your continually harped statement about the effects on 
>gain of your suppressors have to do anything with answering my question?  
> If they really do lower VHF gain that much than your amp shouldn't 
>oscillate at 80 MHz.  
>
>And with regards to the continually harped statement on lower VHF gain 
>with your suppressors, I will paraphrase a quote from you and a quote 
>from Shakespeare and give a quote from myself:
>
>Paraphrase of you:  "When someone insists I go in a certain direction, I 
>generally go the other way."

?  not quite.  .  .  When somebody tells me to ignore something, I get 
curious . When Hillary told us to ignore the rumours because it was just 
part of a gigantic conservative conspiracy to get Bill, I started to pay 
attention.  

>Paraphrase of Shakespeare: "Methinks he doth protest too much."

?  Are you perhaps trying to quote *Hamlet* Act VIII?

>Me: "If someone insists on something too often or too much I begin to 
>question it."
>
?  I question anything that seemingly makes little sense.  

>EVERYONE on this reflector knows that your suppressors claim to lower VHF 
>gain in the anode.  

?  In Wes' measurements, a resistance-wire suppressor lowered vhf Rp and 
Q by about 40% compared to a copper-wire suppressor.  

>Why continue to harp on it??
>
?  Because somebody essentially claimed that Q was not important when 
trying to design a dampening device for a resonant circuit.  .  Because I 
have a vague idea of how to spot Not Invented Here Syndrome.  
>
-  later, Jon


Rich...

R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K, www.vcnet.com/measures  


--
FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/ampfaq.html
Submissions:              amps@contesting.com
Administrative requests:  amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
Problems:                 owner-amps@contesting.com
Search:                   http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>