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Re: [TenTec] Transmitter specs (was Top receivers)

To: <rmcgraw@blomand.net>, "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Transmitter specs (was Top receivers)
From: "chacuff" <chacuff@cableone.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:29:16 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
One TV in question is stand alone..no external speakers.  Tuning the station 
will cause that TV to switch on and then you can't turn it off without 
unplugging it and letting it sit for a while.  My modulation or keying also 
comes from the speakers.  Didn't have any of that with the other station. 
Nothing else has changed.  I've added nothing, removed nothing in any of the 
audio/TV systems.

I'll try some common mode filter chokes on the power cables.  Just thought 
it strange that with the old station the only problems I had was the nice 
touch sensors I put in my wifes china and curio cabinets for the lights. 
Shouldn't have done that. Nothing stops those from blinking...nature of the 
beast.

The station is all tied to a central point ground panel in the shack that is 
tied via 2/0 copper to the ground system that consists of a ring at the base 
of the tower and several near 100' radials leading away from the shack off 
the ring with 10' ground rods driven 20'.  All done with 2/0 copper 7 strand 
cable and exothermic welded to all rods and at three points at the base of 
the tower.  All of that is tied to the shack and house electrical panels to 
meet code for safety grounds and keep everything at the same ground 
potential point.  The tower is 100' from the shack and 200' from the house. 
All coax runs are burried in a 4" conduit and protected by ICE protection 
blocks at the central point ground as well as all rotor cables which are 
protected with ICE blocks at the tower base and the central point ground at 
the shack.

I do this stuff for a living on sites that have to be on the air in the 
middle of storms.

I realize none of that has much to do with whether I'm turning on the TV's 
in the house or entering the audio systems but just to eliminate any 
concerns about a decent RF ground system.

Thanks for you guys suggestions and send any further that you might have. 
I'd like to minimize this as much as possible.

Oh and by the way the Centurion has had a Peter Dahl overwound transformer 
installed so around 65 watts generates around 1400 watts on my Bird 
meter....I tune it for max output at 50 watts drive and get around 1100watts 
out and then retune the load to reduce the grid current to a point just 
before the output starts to drop off.  I wouldn't think running the amp at 
max rated grid current to be a good thing...but suggestions are welcome.

Cecil

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Mcgraw" <rmcgraw@blomand.net>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Transmitter specs (was Top receivers)


> Experience and practice dictates that if audio equipment picks up RF it
> is not the fault of the RF generating equipment.  It is more likely RF
> being picked up on speaker lines and other cables, power and such that is
> being detected in the audio stages, be the system on or off.  Common mode
> chokes on speaker lines, power lines and other audio cables is likely the
> true cure.
>
> Why did the other station not cause the problem?  Can't say.  I do hope
> that you have each piece of the new station connected back to the power
> supply ground terminal.  That then is the common point ground for the
> station.
>
> I run my Omni VII or the Eagle into the Centurion amp developing full
> rated output.  My TV and surround system is immediately below the ham
> station, the tower is 3 ft outside of the wall behind the TV and sound
> system and the off-air TV antenna is side mounted on the ham tower.  No
> RFI at my house, any band, any mode.  Also I do not use any external
> station ground as the station is on the 2nd floor of a wood frame house.
> All lightning protection is outside of the house and mounted on the radio
> tower at the point the coax, balanced feed lines and rotor cables enter
> the house.
>
> On tuning an amp.  Always tune for maximum output.  Do so by advancing
> drive until you attain rated PA grid current max and rated PA plate
> current.  Adjust TUNE for maximum output and LOAD for rated grid current,
> thus more loading = less grid current.  With the Centurion the marks on
> on the PA plate and PA Grid meters are very clear as to the maximum value
> allowed.  The Centurion will attain rated output with anywhere between 80
> watts to 100 watts of drive.  It will vary band to band.
>
> If you wish to operate at a lower power then simply reduce drive. NEVER
> retune the amp for lower power.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>> Sorry changed the subject line since the subject has changed...
>>
>> This comes at a time when I am trying to make sense of some problems with
>> my
>> station.  I'm a recent Ten-Tec convert having bought a used Orion II and
>> Centurion amp.  Was using a Yaesu FT-1000MP MKV and a modified Clipperton
>> L
>> prior.  Since putting the Ten-Tec gear online my wife is complaining that
>> I
>> am coming through many different things in the house (shack is in a
>> separate
>> building) that I never had problems with before.  TV audio in two rooms
>> mainly.  I get complaints from her even if I am only running the rig at
>> 100W
>> so I don't believe the amp is a contributor other than making the problem
>> stronger.
>>
>> When using the amp I drive it with 50 watts out of the rig and tune to
>> 1KW
>> peak out using CW dits as recommended by Ten-Tec.  Amps not pushed hard
>> and
>> neither is the rig.
>>
>> My grounding system is very robust...near commercial/cellular spec for
>> lightning protection and all equipment is bonded to it.  Really nothing
>> has
>> changed in my station except the transceiver and amp.  Antennas are
>> resonant
>> on 10 thru 20 and 40.  (Force 12)
>>
>> I plan to put my spectrum analyzer on the air next chance I get and see
>> just
>> what is going out.  I didn't expect this and am concerned about what the
>> neighbors might be experiencing but haven't come knocking on my door as
>> of
>> yet.
>>
>> Old rig was a 200W version of the MKV run at about 125 watts into the amp
>> that was tuned up tight to about 900W out.  I was pushing it much harder.
>>  I
>> never ran the rig in Class A due to the heat and stress it created on the
>> finals.
>>
>> Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.
>>
>> I've had no on air complaints.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Cecil
>> K5DL
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <d.e.warnick@comcast.net>
>> To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Top receivers
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are currently emission standards, etc. that need to be met to
>>> gain
>>> FCC type acceptance. If the current crop of transceivers meet these
>>> specifications & there is still a problem, then the specifications for
>>> FCC
>>> type acceptanced may (or may not) need to be reviewed. There is a
>>> specification for 'spurious emissions', as well as others. If they are
>>> not
>>> doing the job, then a thoroug h review of those specs may be in order.
>>>
>>> What we do not need is any government authority dictating engineering
>>> such
>>> as a specific type of component ("48v MOSFETs").
>>>
>>> Please, please, please allow the consumer to drive the market, and be
>>> very
>>> cautious about yet more government oversight where it has been proven
>>> time
>>> and again to increase cost without solving anything.
>>>
>>> Just my take.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We could solve a lot of issues on the air by better educating those
>>> among
>>> us who overdrive, tune improperly, overprocess, and run fa r more power
>>> than necess ary. (Yes, I do use a linear when necessary.) In the
>>> current
>>> Yemen & Somalia DXpeditions, I have had far more issues with bad
>>> operators
>>> than with bad signals. (If I hear UP, LID, or worse one more time, I
>>> think
>>> I'll scream). I have shut down & walked away several times, even though
>>> I
>>> need the band. My choice, but that's not the ham radio that I have
>>> enjoyed
>>> for more than 45 years, and I choose to not let it become that. There
>>> are
>>> guys calling without a break even though a contact is in progress. If
>>> you
>>> want more government intervention, fund the FCC's enforcement branch to
>>> clean this up. (No, I don't really want that either but something has
>>> got
>>> to give).
>>
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