Rick,
I'm with you on the "too many features." While I haven't owned or used a K3,
one of the things I never cared for about the K2 was the "one way" filter
selection: it cycled through the filters wide to narrow, and to go to a wider
filter required going all the way back around. On top of that, if the
optional audio filter was installed, using it required a press and hold of
the xtal filter button as a secondary function. Having separate
bi-directional controls (as in the Corsair and others) spoiled me HI HI!!
73, Al
On Thu December 10 2015 3:26:27 pm rick@dj0ip.de wrote:
> Darrell,
>
> I'm in between you and Jim.
>
> You identified the problem yourself.
> The newer generation have too many features to give them all a knob or
> button, and there isn't enough space on the front panel to label a switch
> with all the features.
>
> At the same time, THE biggest thing I disliked about the K3 was that I
> could not operate it without a manual.
> In fact at first I used both the manual and the tiny Quick Guide (those $10
> specials). Sometimes the manual explained stuff better, sometimes the
> guide was better.
>
> Let's backtrack; prior to purchasing the K3, I was one of the operators
> with Tim (K3LR) at a field day site.
> During the grave yard shift where most people were home in bed, I was using
> a K3 on 40m CW.
> The OP before me had turned the CW decoder on, so that the text of
> everything sent or received was shown on the screen. It was shown over the
> space where the RIT Offset normally would have been displayed.
>
> I was unable to turn the damn decoder off. Therefore I was unable to see
> my RIT offset.
> The owner of the K3 was not on site and there was no manual.
> That really ruined my first encounter with a K3.
> But it was typical of what's wrong with K3 ergonomics.
> "It's not intuitive."
>
> Fast forward. I bought the K3 anyway, was happy with it for a few months,
> then I got a call from the president of Ten-Tec informing me he had just
> sent me an Eagle. "What's an Eagle", I asked. He said "your radio."
> Basically it was what I had told him I wanted about 4 years earlier but
> instead he built the O7. So this Eagle showed up just in time for CQWW
> contest.
>
> I had already taken down my beam in preparation for moving back to Germany,
> so I had no shot at a good contest score. A great reason to use the
> contest to compare the K3 to an Eagle.
>
> Not knowing of the audio problem, I connected identical external loud
> speakers to both rigs and compared.
> World of difference. The Eagle won hands down. To be sure, I swapped the
> two speakers. No change.
>
> Also, at no time could I say that I heard a signal better on the one or the
> other.
>
> BUT, before the Eagle arrived, I read the manual once.
> I never touched it again. Everything was intuitive.
>
> THAT was the deciding point, not the audio problem.
>
> Elecraft needs improvement on the naming and handling of its menus.
>
> I'm sure if you have only one radio, a K3, and you use it all the time,
> then this becomes a moot point.
> But it is a huge part of the learning curve.
>
> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Darrell
> Bellerive VE7IU
> Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 8:42 PM
> To: k9yc@arrl.net; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> Subject: [TenTec] Radio Complexity was Re: Dirty Transmitters - Flex and
> Yaesu
>
> I agree Jim, these issues are very personal and what one operator finds
> intuitive, another may not. That is why we have many choices when it comes
> to radios.
>
> Personally I like the boat anchor ergonomics; Big widely spaced single
> function controls.
>
> Let's take one example: mode selection.
>
> The K3 uses a rocking pushbutton to toggle up or down through its basic
> modes. One also holds the down side of the mode button (ALT function) to
> select alternate modes. Once the basic mode of DATA is selected, yet
> another key is held down (AFX) to set the data mode (DATA MD) with the
> rotation of the VFO B knob.
>
> Want synchronous AM mode? Push the mode button up or down until AM is
> displayed then press and hold the ALT button. One has to memorize this
> and/or have a manual or cheat sheet available.
>
> This is what I consider complexity. The radio button labels do not indicate
> how to select synchronous AM mode. I either have to memorize it or look it
> up. In fact, if I never read the manual, I would not even know the K3(S)
> has a synchronous AM mode.
>
> Boat anchor ergonomics would have a muti-position rotary switch with each
> mode clearly labelled. Rotate the switch to the desired mode and your done.
>
> Now I know that the K3(S) can do more than any boat anchor could ever dream
> of, and that a rotary switch for modes on a modern radio is not practical,
> but all that capability comes at a price, complexity.
>
> So with a K3(S) to use functions that are not labeled I have to either:
> memorize,
> consult the manual,
> make a cheat sheet, or
> decide I never want to use that function and just forget it exists.
>
> Like all choices in purchasing it becomes a compromise. What is important
> to me, what can I live with, what can I not live without, etc.
>
> The Eagle on my desk is no exception. I knew from day one I would not like
> its pushbutton system and I don't. I tolerate it because what I do like
> about that radio outweighs what I do not like. And I know me too - that one
> day I will have pushed that FNC button one too many times, and the Eagle
> will go up for sale.
>
> And before someone calls me out. Yes, the Eagle has hidden functions too,
> just like the K3(S). Setting the noise reduction level is one example. You
> have to hold the NR button after it is selected.
>
> Right now there are three radios I would own, the Eagle, the K3S, and the
> TS-590SG. My choice for the next while anyways is the Eagle. Down the road,
> quite likely the K3S even with its complexity. Unless of course Ten-Tec,
> Elecraft, or maybe Heathkit makes something I like even more.
>
> 73, Darrell VE7IU
>
> On 15-12-10 10:24 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > On Thu,12/10/2015 8:34 AM, Darrell Bellerive VE7IU wrote:
> >> but I did not care for the audio, the complexity, or the ergonomics.
> >
> > These issues are very personal, and depend a lot on what we're used to
> > and what we've experienced.
> >
> > I'm retired from a career in pro audio, and am a Fellow of the Audio
> > Engineering Society. Except for casual monitoring while I'm doing
> > other stuff in the shack, I use headphones for 99.9% of my operation.
> > My headphones of choice are Sony MDR7506 and Yamaha CM500. Both
> > provide excellent communications quality RX audio. I don't use ham RX
> > to listen to broadcast audio -- I have other radios for that purpose.
> >
> > As to user interface -- Elecraft has done a great job of learning what
> > controls most hams need on a daily basis and which can be on menus.
> > Everything that I've ever needed to adjust while operating is either a
> > button or a knob on the front panel, or can be assigned to either of
> > two "soft" buttons on the front panel. In 8 years, I've found only one
> > function I wanted to assign -- toggling the speaker on and off with my
> > Yamaha CM500 plugged into the rear panel.
> >
> > Indeed, the "complexity" is nothing more than giving the user more
> > control of how the radio works than do most other radios. This control
> > is on menus, AND menus are only needed when you want to change how the
> > radio works. The K3 and K3S work just fine with no adjustments to any
> > of those menus to work SSB or CW with a mic and paddle plugged into
> > the front panel! Exception -- VOX Gain and Anti-VOX are on a top-level
> > menu. If you want to plug your CM500 (or other boom mic headset) into
> > the rear panel, you'll need to go to a menu to select rear panel mic
> > and hit a button (2 on the keypad) to turn on bias. Again, that's a
> > one-time setting.
> >
> > More complexity -- the K3 and K3S have TX modes optimized for digital
> > modes and for RTTY. You need to select the right method for the way
> > you want to TX these modes. These are, for most of us, one-time
> > settings. Less complexity -- both K3 and K3S have a Line Input to feed
> > digital (or SSB messages) from a computer, so you don't need adapters
> > to the mic input.
> >
> > But all the controls you need while operating are on the front panel
> > -- IF bandwidth and shift, Mic Gain, CW speed, Audio Compression,
> > Power out, RF gain, AF Gain, RIT/XIT, preamp on/off, Atten on/off,
> > Ant1/Ant2 toggle, Tune button, Ant Auto Tune, Mode, Band, Spot, Notch,
> > NB, NR, are all on the front panel. Want to go into Split Mode? Hit
> > A>B twice in succession to copy A VFO settings to B VFO, then push and
> > hold A>B to go into split, then tune the B VFO where you want to TX.
> >
> > Hope this helps to correct some misconceptions.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > _______________________________________________
> > TenTec mailing list
> > TenTec@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
> >
> >
> > --
> > Darrell Bellerive
> > VE7IU
>
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