Good points David,
The cluster feed to the scoreboard should be unfiltered and optimized to
minimize communications latency. Also, if the new station worked is less
than x kHz away (let's say 2) it would not be considered a hit. This
window would slide slightly wider for each sucessive station worked in a
given direction.
I think a person doing S&P would exhibit a certain behavior in contrast with
a person jumping on spots.
Banks can 'flag' suspicious activity on credit card accounts by looking for
certain patterns of activity.
73's
Guy, N7ZG
>From: "David Robbins K1TTT" <k1ttt@arrl.net>
>Reply-To: k1ttt@arrl.net
>To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
>Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Competing in the Daylight
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 13:14:05 -0000
>
>It may make sense to you, but it is not a logical way to find offenders.
>How do you fix the 'X' time period? Pick 10 minutes, if a rare multiplier
>is getting spotted every 2 minutes or more often somewhere in the network
>then single ops could never work it without getting penalized. Remember,
>what you see on your screen often has been filtered down quite a bit from
>what passes on the backbone. Many nodes run filters that only show you new
>spots for a station every 10 minutes or so, during that time there may have
>been many spots rejected by the node.
>
>Then consider this scenario... how many times have you been s&ping on a
>band
>and as you dial up the band you keep running into the same station calling
>the stations you are calling? Someone analyzed this many years ago and
>found that it is easy to get in step with several other stations as you s&p
>and end up in the same pileups with them over and over. Well, what about
>if
>one of those stations you are following up the band is automatically
>spotting everything they work or hear(this is a feature in some newer
>logging programs)... then everything you work as a s/o following them up
>the
>band has just been spotted!
>
>Also in some clubs it has been requested that you spot everything you hear
>on the bands to help keep the multi op band maps full. This is a great
>help, especially on Sundays when you need to find some extra qso's... but
>this also results in lots of spots for not so interesting dx that would be
>found and worked by so2r ops just as easily.
>
>
>David Robbins K1TTT
>e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
>web: http://www.k1ttt.net
>AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com [mailto:cq-contest-
> > bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy Molinari
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 04:19
> > To: N7MAL@CITLINK.NET; cq-contest@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Competing in the Daylight
> >
> > Hi Mal,
> > What you suggest makes sense to me. Barry, W2UP points out that
>it
> > would be easy to 'game' the system by waiting for a time period to lapse
> > and
> > make it appear that normal S&P activity is taking place. I would
>think
> > that the effort required to do this would possibly negate any advantage.
> > Also, the really rare mults will have pileups pretty quick if ignored
>for
> > any reasonable lengh of time.
> >
> > 73's
> > Guy, N7ZG
> >
> >
> > >From: "N7MAL" <N7MAL@CITLINK.NET>
> > >To: "Guy Molinari"
><guy_molinari@hotmail.com>,<cq-contest@contesting.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Competing in the Daylight
> > >Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:07:36 -0000
> > >
> > >I don't know an algorithm from a pizza pie but here is a starting
>place:
> > >The participant's real-time logs and DX Packet-Cluster spots are fed
>into
> > >some computer with some special software. The software will be 'smart'
> > >enough to read the spots and the logs, in real-time. Every, single op,
> > >station who works a station which has been spotted, within 'X' period
>of
> > >time, gets a point. After a single-op or multi-op station has
>accumulated
> > >(i.e.) 100 points the software re-classifies the station to a multi-op
> > >assisted and electronically notifies the contest sponsor. Additionally
> > the
> > >software/computer be made available to every contest sponsor and all
>logs
> > >submitted be run through the software, specifically looking for
> > >Packet-Cluster spot matches. The only change with post contest log
> > checking
> > >would be after a log reached the specified point level the log would be
> > >disqualified.
> > >
> > >
> > >MAL N7MAL
> > >BULLHEAD CITY, AZ
> > >http://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htm
> > >http://geocities.com/n7mal/
> > >Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
> > >It's already tomorrow in Australia
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Guy Molinari
> > > To: N7MAL@CITLINK.NET ; cq-contest@contesting.com
> > > Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:14
> > > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Competing in the Daylight
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I think so. The scoreboard system could also aggregate data
>from
> > >the
> > > packet cluster as well. We would just need to come up with the
> > >algorithm
> > > to identify the possible misuse of spots.
> > >
> > > Any ideas?
> > >
> > > 73's
> > > Guy, N7ZG
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "N7MAL" <N7MAL@CITLINK.NET>
> > > >To: "Guy Molinari"
> > ><guy_molinari@hotmail.com>,<cq-contest@contesting.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Competing in the Daylight
> > > >Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2005 22:59:28 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Can or could you add the technology of simultaneously displaying
>the
> > > >Packet-Cluster spots so it would be easy to determine who was
> > claiming
> > > >single op but obviously stealing spots..??.. It is easy to see that
> > > >Packet-Cluster cheating is rampant and is a real threat to honest
> > > >contesting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >MAL N7MAL
> > > >BULLHEAD CITY, AZ
> > > >http://www.ctaz.com/~suzyq/N7mal.htm
> > > >http://geocities.com/n7mal/
> > > >Don't worry about the world coming to an end today.
> > > >It's already tomorrow in Australia
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Guy Molinari
> > > > To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 09, 2005 21:38
> > > > Subject: [CQ-Contest] Competing in the Daylight
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This was exactly my point in the earlier posting. I am a
> > software
> > > >engineer
> > > > by profession and I am
> > > > responsible for providing the "push" infrastructure behind the
>the
> > > >ESPN.com
> > > > web sites. While I
> > > > cannot disclose the actual capabilities of this system, I can
> > assure
> > >you
> > > > that supporting the
> > > > concurrent connections of all contesters and interested
>specators
> > is
> > > >easily
> > > > doable.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not talking about a static web page that must be
>periodically
> > > >refreshed.
> > > >
> > > > Opening up the UBN's/logs would be a step in the right direction
> > >IMHO,
> > > >but
> > > > it would not stop the
> > > > post contest 'massaging' of log data.
> > > >
> > > > I agree that knowing where your competitors stand would also
>have
> > >some
> > > > positive motivational side
> > > > effects.
> > > >
> > > > Now that I think of it, there are some parallels here with auto
> > >racing.
> > > > The 'car' being the station
> > > > of course.
> > > >
> > > > 73's
> > > > Guy, N7ZG
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > >>This thread seems to be focusing on "releasing" logs
> > > > after the event, for later scrutiny. Why stop there?
> > > > Why not "compete in the daylight" in the first place?
> > > > Why not know your position against other competitors
> > > > while the contest is still going on?<<
> > > >
> > > > Let's do the first step (publish logs), we been trying to get
>this
> > >for
> > > >few
> > > > years. Walk before you run!!!
> > > >
> > > > Compete in the daylight? What would that do?
> > > > Like, when we compete, we take it easy, and then when we think
> > >someone
> > > >is
> > > > beating us, "we step on the gas"?
> > > > So we will be watching how we do instead of running the contest?
> > > >
> > > > Not here, thank you! I want to prepare for contest (never enough
> > >time),
> > > > enjoy
> > > > operating (seriously, or just hand out contacts), submit the log
> > and
> > > >(sooner
> > > > or later) find out how I did.
> > > >
> > > > 73 Yuri, K3BU.us
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > > > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > >CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > >http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> >
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