hello guys!
let´s go to do CW!
why do you claim here if you are not doing radio?
http://www.reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/dxsd1.php?f=0&c=WA1FCN&t=dx
http://www.reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/dxsd1.php?f=0&c=ei5di&t=dx
http://www.reversebeacon.net/dxsd1/dxsd1.php?f=0&c=dj7ww&t=dx
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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El lun, 21 jun 2021 a las 13:22, Jeff Clarke (<ku8e@ku8e.com>) escribió:
> I guess I don't understand why this FT8 subject is dominating the
> contest reflector again? It's pretty simple... if you don't like FT8
> then don't operate that mode. You can still work lots of DX on the
> traditional CW and SSB modes. My guess is any group that goes to a rare
> DXCC entry will concentrate more on CW and SSB anyway. FT8 won't be a
> high priority and will only be used when propagation isn't good (or
> dead) on a specific band. As far as I know there are only maybe a couple
> dedicated FT8 contests and it's allowed in RTTY contests as well? Isn't
> there a RTTY contesting list? Maybe this subject should be discussed
> there? Just saying...
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On 6/20/2021 06:53 PM, Salvatore ["Ted"] K2QMF wrote:
> > FT8 also takes the FUN out of Ham Radio and out of DXing and out of
> Contesting!!
> > Ted K2QMF
> >
> >
> > On 6/20/2021 5:53:05 PM, wa1fcn <wa1fcn@charter.net> wrote:
> >
> > GA Ken
> >
> > I have read your post a couple of times. My thoughts......
> > You are partly
> >
> > correct. DXSummit and RBN have certainly changed how we DX.
> > There are
> >
> > a couple differences between that and what FT8 did to DXing!
> > Did the
> >
> > RBN/DXSummit stop or curtail any CW/SSB operations? Do You
> > have friends
> >
> > club members ect. who feel/talk bad about RBN ect, probably not.
> >
> > Let me be clear I am not totally against FT8 only the way
> > ARRL has integrated
> >
> > it with the DXCC program, and it's effect on RTTY and the
> > thought once a
> >
> > new ham gets into FT8 seriously, you can forget about
> > him/her putting any real effort
> >
> > into learning CW or being a proficient SSB operator. For
> > full disclosure every few months
> >
> > I do get on FT8 for a couple weeks.
> >
> > Back to DXCC with FT8......... What can be done with 50
> > watts FT8 can not even
> >
> > be done with a KW on SSB or CW now. Do you consider
> > those QSL's/QSO's
> >
> > equal to SSB/CW efforts ? I do not.
> >
> > 73 OM BoB WA1FCN
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/20/2021 11:46 AM, ktfrog007@aol.com wrote:
> >> Hi Bob,
> >>
> >> You wrote: The ARRL has destroyed the value of DXCC.
> >>
> >> ===========================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The ARRL hasn't done anything. Technological change has.
> >>
> >> The DX clusters and RBN destroyed the value of DXCC. That happened
> >> quite a while back. Long before FT8 came along.
> >>
> >>
> >> DXers used to be admired for their skills, knowledge and
> >> perseverance. They used to operate by their wits. No longer. That's
> >> what ruined DXCC.
> >>
> >>
> >> Name me a DXer you admire who has started from scratch 15 years ago
> >> and has over 300 Current confirmed and hasn't used the clusters or RBN..
> >>
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> Ken, AB1J
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: wa1fcn
> >> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> >> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 12:46 am
> >> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contesting and the FT8 Revolution
> >>
> >>
> >> GE Kostas
> >>
> >> I just wanted you to know you are not the only one to feel bad
> >> about DXCC.
> >>
> >> In the past couple years a few people have E-Mailed me
> >> about their feelings
> >>
> >> in regards to DXCC. The ARRL has destroyed the value of
> >> DXCC. It has taken
> >>
> >> me a lifetime (over 50years) to achieve DXCC of 285 on 40
> >> meters low power.
> >>
> >> They should of separated FT8/FT4 from all other modes in
> >> Single band DXCC.
> >>
> >> DX with FT8 is fishing in a barrel. Can you imagine the
> >> DXCC totals on 12 and 10
> >>
> >> meters when the Sunspot cycle improves! Where is the
> >> challenge now?! There
> >>
> >> is none! I can go on to other FT8 minuses like how it
> >> destroyed RTTY, how it has
> >>
> >> made some hams lazy and see no need to put any effort into
> >> becoming a more
> >>
> >> proficient operator in other modes.
> >>
> >> Ok Kostas I will stop now as I am sure I offended
> >> enough hams already.
> >>
> >> 73 BoB WA1FCN
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/19/2021 2:46 PM, Kostas SV1DPI wrote:
> >>> Maybe you have right. But I don't feel the same.
> >>>
> >>> ** The small pistol station revolution
> >>>
> >>> Having 1 kw and a 2el quad @10m high, I don't feel a big gun. I had
> >>> the chance to be competitive in dxing because I devoted many hours
> >>> studying propagation and even more time on the radio. Now there is no
> >>> chance for me to make something that others do not. They let their
> >>> computer and play 24 hours per day with better antennas and more
> >>> power.... So yes small pistols have the chance to work something they
> >>> had not but not to be competitive...
> >>>
> >>> ** The station optimization revolution
> >>>
> >>> I have at least one friend who has a long wire and have worked 290
> >>> countries the last 3 years, of course in ft8, including pacific, etc.
> >>> So why to make his station better? I remember that I put my quad
> >>> higher when I lost a dxpedition, I bought an amplifier the next time,
> >>> etc... Now there is no chance to loose a dxpedition especially because
> >>> almost every dxpedition (let me know it - don't forget that the first
> >>> ft8 robot was Greek and I know some of the guys bought it) uses more
> >>> than one robots running ft8 all day. And they have not the courage to
> >>> say it...
> >>>
> >>> ** The now-casting propagation revolution
> >>> In SZ1A we have a skimmer (maybe you know it even it is out of order
> >>> the last 3 weeks - we have ordered the damaged parts). We use the
> >>> results of the skimmer to make our plans in contests. The first time
> >>> we were keeping ft8 qsos as the CW qsos also. This had as a result to
> >>> drive us to mistakes in real contesting. While the band seemed to be
> >>> open the previous days during specific time, it wasn't finally during
> >>> the contest. So we stopped using the FT8 spots and now we keep only
> >>> the CW qsos to make our plans.
> >>>
> >>> ** The marginal bands revolution
> >>>
> >>> Yes, ft8 helps a weaker station to have a QSO (I don't think "to be
> >>> heard" is the right expression). I am not a 6m fun but I managed to
> >>> work 125 entities the last 15 years. Also optimization of antennas,
> >>> radios, amplifiers, etc, all these years. Someone using ft8, has
> >>> worked these entities the last 2 years in the lower point of solar
> >>> cycle using the half length of my boom. But what he will do the next
> >>> years... What he will work in high part of solar cycle? And why he
> >>> needs to wait for it? Probably he will play cards because I don't
> >>> think he will stay in ham radio... If you don't need to improve the
> >>> station, the antennas, to study and learn propagation, to learn more,
> >>> to increase your knowledge, etc... what will be the interesting part
> >>> to keep you in ham radio? I already know someone who stopped to play
> >>> radio, never installed his new hexbeam, because he worked WAS on 40m
> >>> in a week with a long wire (WAS is far more difficult from DXCC from
> >>> Greece), letting his computer to play ever night. Plus another one who
> >>> had dxcc with all entities in ft8 but he didn't know the QSO procedure!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In conclusion, I don't care what the others do. I mentioned about
> >>> others just to show the results. I have not fun with ft8 and this is
> >>> why I don't use it. If you are pleasant with it, do it. I don't care.
> >>> I lost my interest for DXing.
> >>> I can not understand how someone has fun with ft8 in contesting.
> >>> Because the rhythm? Because the nice sound? Because of the pileup? Or
> >>> because he has the time to go to the toilet while his computer makes
> >>> some QSOs...
> >>>
> >>> By the way I am a digital guy! I gave many new ones to west coast guys
> >>> on RTTY from Iran (EP6T) and I have 329 entities on RTTY. I have tried
> >>> ft8 and I didn't like it. I abandoned dxcc program while I was HR1, HR
> >>> on SSB and CW and had over 2850 entities in challenge because of Ft8
> >>> acceptance by ARRL. I am crying over the money I gave to ARRL. After
> >>> 25 years in ham radio I continue to play chasing fun in CW/SSB/RTTY
> >>> contesting (mainly casual but more serious also sometimes) and I don't
> >>> think ft8 could be part of my contesting habits.
> >>>
> >>> 73 Kostas SV1DPI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Στις 19/6/2021 18:24, ο/η José Nunes CT1BOH έγραψε:
> >>>> There is a revolution going on – The FT8 revolution! Like other
> >>>> revolutions, it is a breakthrough and there is no coming back. But
> >>>> unlike
> >>>> what many think, FT8 mode is fantastic for amateur radio and of
> >>>> course for
> >>>> contesting.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> There are several things I can particularly note:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** The spotting revolution
> >>>>
> >>>> Because of the default reporting option of FT8 applications, every
> >>>> station
> >>>> that uses JTDX/WSJT applications is constantly spotting all the
> >> stations
> >>>> that the decoders hear. Every station becomes a spotting machine of
> the
> >>>> bands (just like a skimmer) while they are on. The result?! 20.8
> >> billion
> >>>> FT8 spots in 4 years.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** The small pistol station revolution
> >>>>
> >>>> Considering a 2500 Hz bandwidth and weak-signal/Noise Ratio, SSB can
> >>>> go as
> >>>> low as +10 dB, CW -15 db and FT8 -21dB. To put it in another way,
> since
> >>>> doubling power results in 3 dB increase in SNR, a 31db difference
> >>>> means 1W
> >>>> in FT8 versus 1024 watts in SSB.
> >>>>
> >>>> A modest station, suddenly, feels like a new world of propagation has
> >>>> opened to him and this in return brings more and more people to the
> >>>> bands
> >>>> because of the fun of working stations and paths not before available.
> >>>> There is a virtuous cycle – more spots, more people, more activity,
> >> more
> >>>> spots, more people, more activity, …
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** The now-casting propagation revolution
> >>>>
> >>>> With such a huge volume of spots, 20.8 billion in 4 years and around
> 22
> >>>> million spots per day [just for your reference last CQWW CW generated
> >>>> 6.5M
> >>>> spots], propagation prediction is turning into now-casting
> propagation.
> >>>> There is no need for propagation prediction anymore because,
> >> knowing the
> >>>> propagation pattern from 20 billion spots and getting real
> >>>> propagation from
> >>>> the 22 million spots per day, real time conditions come from
> >> now-casting
> >>>> propagation - any circuit can be determined to be open or close.
> >>>>
> >>>> You can watch my 2021 Contest University presentation about this
> >> subject
> >>>> here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-esob7BPtc&t=20340s
> >> and/or get the
> >>>> slides of the presentation slides here
> >>>>
> >>
> https://www.contestuniversity.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/There-is-Nothing-Magic-About-Propagation-CTU-2021-CT1BOH.pdf
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** The station optimization revolution
> >>>>
> >>>> This is perhaps one of the most overlooked aspects of FT8 and of great
> >>>> interest to contest stations. Because of the spotting revolution and
> >>>> because every FT8 station uses exact grid locator, the exact path
> >> of the
> >>>> circuits can be drawn. A contest station that uses a simple FT8
> >>>> skimmer can
> >>>> monitor, 24x7, the potential of any antenna set-up, compare different
> >>>> antennas configuration (A/B testing using different calls), test
> >> antenna
> >>>> take-off angles, and adjust this information to available
> >> propagation at
> >>>> any time, before or during a contest. “22 million spots per day” are
> >>>> there
> >>>> available to test your station. I believe every station, DX or
> >>>> Contest, should
> >>>> use a FT8 Skimmer, like the stand alone Red Pitaya
> >>>> https://www.redpitaya.com/ to skim
> >> several bands at the same time at
> >>>> a very
> >>>> low cost, provide now-casting information, check antenna and location
> >>>> potential and use that for station optimization. This link takes you
> >>>> to a
> >>>> visualization of my modest small pistol station (just a simple long
> >>>> wire)
> >>>> potential on all the bands https://tinyurl.com/e6767we8
> >> in the last 24
> >>>> hours.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** The marginal bands revolution
> >>>>
> >>>> With FT8, marginal bands like 160, 10 and 6 meters become alive like
> no
> >>>> other. Going deeper into the SNR, “opens” new circuits, brings more
> >>>> activity, confirms these circuits were always there. We are working
> >>>> Japan
> >>>> on 6 meters on a daily basis... Also, there is a move from CW into
> >>>> FT8 on
> >>>> these band. This is a side effect, but it is what it is. If people
> >>>> suddenly
> >>>> find a band open at -21dB that before was close at -15dB, of course
> >> they
> >>>> will use the mode that enables those QSOs and will not use the other
> >>>> mode
> >>>> anymore.
> >>>>
> >>>> In any case competitive contesting (SSB and CW) has a lot to gain
> >>>> form this
> >>>> revolution. Exciting times indeed
> >>>>
> >>>> 73 José Nunes
> >>>> CONTEST CT1BOH - http://www.qsl.net/ct1boh
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
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--
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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