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Re: [CQ-Contest] Contesting and the FT8 Revolution

To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contesting and the FT8 Revolution
From: David Gilbert <ab7echo@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 11:59:05 -0700
List-post: <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Everything you just said there is the fault of WSJT-X as a user 
interface ... not FT8 or FT4 as a mode.  They are NOT the same thing.  
WSJT-X is simply the narrow and restrictive vehicle by which we have 
been exposed to the exceptional weak signal capability of modern digital 
processing (forward error correcting, Costas array processing, etc).  
We'd all be having a LOT more fun with a more open ended interface ... 
possibly with these parameters:
1.  wider individual signal bandwidth, such as maybe 200 Hz instead of 
83 Hz.
2.  fully tunable over the typical digital sub band (like RTTY does)

3.  Asynchronous in time ... i.e., not locked to a discrete and specific clock window
4.  shorter blocks of data with continuous feed of the blocks

5.  sent via text blocks on the transmit end ... exactly as DVRs and contest loggers do now
6.  displayed as text or converted to audible CW (or even digital voice) 
on the receive end


Such an interface would be amenable to DXing, contesting, or ragchewing with a user experience similar to CW or RTTY, except with far better weak signal performance.  It would even be possible to have a built in CW to text converter on the transmit end for CW ragchewing.  In my opinion, it's almost a crime that the capability of FT8/FT4 is being so completely constrained by WSJT-X.
The weak signal performance of FT8/4 is entirely possible with a user 
interface that would be hard to distinguish between how we typically use 
CW and RTTY for DXing and contesting.  I've dug into this stuff enough 
to know that (and I have a son who has done leading edge work on this 
kind of thing for a living for over 20 years) ... I'm just not smart 
enough to code it.
73,
Dave   AB7E



On 6/20/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Blaine wrote:
This point that Ted makes - the FUN aspect - is in my opinion why FT8/FT4 contesting struggles.
Yes, it's fun to make FT8/FT4 contacts initially.  And the underlying 
technology is about as cool as it possibly gets.  But from a 
competitive standpoint, once the novelty wears off, it pretty quickly 
becomes monotonous because there is no significant operator 
intervention possible to push the rate or the mults higher.
A competitive game (which is really the essence of radiosport, under a 
different term) which is going to drive increased and sustained 
participation must have a method that provides an increased challenge 
and a performance-based reward mechanism which is the payback for the 
increased skill.  Unfortunately in FT8/FT4 the computer (and the 
mode's structure) controls virtually all normal contest skill set, 
save for picking the right band.  I'm generalizing here, but 
essentially that's it.  One can go from an new FT8/FT4 contester --> 
to an experienced one in about an hour or few.  And after that, almost 
nothing you do with respect to operation will significantly affect 
your results.  The variables are limited, with perhaps the band chosen 
being the most significant pick.  Otherwise, it's mostly up to the 
computer.
Of course that depends on how the contest is setup.  Some formats make 
more sense to me than others.  I've always thought the grid-square 
based mileage method popularized by the RTTY Makrothon and CW/SSB Stew 
Perry contests provided a format that was almost ideal for the FT8/FT4 
mode.  It provides a about as close to an even playing field with 
respect to location as you are going to get in radiosport.  And it's 
fun to watch what grid square pops up with each new caller as that 
drives a variable points count.
Unfortunately, even with a complementary contest format like mentioned 
above, the operator performance reward is absent once you get the hang 
of it, and it's that aspect of the mode that puts an upper limit as to 
the "fun" realizable.
73/jeff/ac0c
alpha-charlie-zero-charlie
www.ac0c.com
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